We've all been there: mid-conversation or deep into a work session, only for our digital lifeline to suddenly drop, leaving us stranded in a sea of silence. It's these moments of unexpected disconnection that highlight a pervasive gap in our modern, connected lives.
Well, Today on Things Have Changed Podcast, we're joined by Damien Garot, CEO, and Hassan Aouisse, CTO of Stellar, a deep tech startup on a mission to perfect internet while on the move.
Through their innovative blend of cellular, Wi-Fi, and satellite technologies, they're tackling the universal challenge of reliable connectivity, promising a future where digital accessibility knows no bounds.
Join us as we delve into the journey of Stellar, uncovering the inspirations, challenges, and breakthroughs that mark their path towards a seamlessly connected world. This episode is more than just a peek into the future of technology; it's a conversation about how bridging the digital divide can reshape our daily lives, making every moment of connection count.
So stay curious, and let's explore together how Stellar is lighting up the dark spots on our digital maps, ensuring that no call, no message, and no byte of data is ever lost in transit again.
We've all been there: mid-conversation or deep into a work session, only for our digital lifeline to suddenly drop, leaving us stranded in a sea of silence. It's these moments of unexpected disconnection that highlight a pervasive gap in our modern, connected lives.
Well, Today on Things Have Changed Podcast, we're joined by Damien Garot, CEO, and Hassan Aouisse, CTO of Stellar, a deep tech startup on a mission to perfect internet while on the move.
Through their innovative blend of cellular, Wi-Fi, and satellite technologies, they're tackling the universal challenge of reliable connectivity, promising a future where digital accessibility knows no bounds.
Join us as we delve into the journey of Stellar, uncovering the inspirations, challenges, and breakthroughs that mark their path towards a seamlessly connected world. This episode is more than just a peek into the future of technology; it's a conversation about how bridging the digital divide can reshape our daily lives, making every moment of connection count.
So stay curious, and let's explore together how Stellar is lighting up the dark spots on our digital maps, ensuring that no call, no message, and no byte of data is ever lost in transit again.
Whether you're on the road, Traveling from home, heading to your vacation destination, or simply commuting to work? Have you ever felt the frustration of unreliable internet? As the world strives for increased connectivity, slow and spotty internet on the go has become all too common. Well, today Podcast, we're joined by Damien Garreau, CEO, and Hassan Owais, CTO of Stellar. A deep tech startup on a mission to perfect internet while on the move.
Damien Garot:I just know that I can simply not have. a quality discussion with my parents when they're on the ride.
Hassan Aouisse:The land mobility remains the area where there is no solutions up to now that really covers the problem of disconnection while on the road,
Shikher Bhandary:Stellar is reshaping this landscape of connectivity with a revolutionary approach that integrates cellular, Wi Fi, and satellite networks. This ensures a seamless and reliable internet experience regardless of your location.
Hassan Aouisse:There is no solutions up to now that covers the problem of disconnection while on the road, because it's not just about what's the service availability, but also how many times you get disconnected over an hour or 30 minutes drive. And that's what Stellar is solving for the land mobility sector. The next step is to combine them together is that's where we'll bring that value to solve the last problem
Shikher Bhandary:So join us as we explore how Stellar is tackling the challenges of today's digital divide and reshaping the future of connectivity.
Jed Tabernero:Come 2023 Amazon released their new return to office policy, which had a ton of us exactly. Oh, a ton of us in my generation and my work and my team thinking, Oh no, we've all moved out to the boonies, to the suburbs. And now we're having to come back to the office. One huge thing I had to do was actually commute to Washington DC. That's more than a 200 mile distance from my home. And my office that's huge, but thankfully the Northeast regional train Amtrak, I never thought I would be saying this Amtrak was offering train rides from Newark to Washington, DC. Amazing. The only problem was the train took four and a half hours, four and a half hours. So I started doing that around May, June. And I realized, okay, my work allows me to work from home some points of the time. So maybe I could just work on the train. No time wasted four and a half hours working on the train. Only the biggest problem I encountered was Let's just say the internet was less than stellar. It got me thinking, there's Probably a lot of people doing this the most used train line in the united states is the northeast regional train line from boston all the way down to dc There's millions of people that use this on a yearly basis, so trying to make the best of my commute I just found it really frustrating that I didn't have great internet, wasn't able to continuously take calls, wasn't able to continue to do my work. And that's exactly why I'm super excited about our guest today. Today we've got Damien Gareau. And Hassan Aouiz, both representing the company called Stellar, our first space company in Things Have Changed podcast. I am so excited. They're doing the incredible work of providing reliable connectivity solutions, combining cellular, Wi Fi, and satellite. They might just have a solution for our problem. Damien Hassan, welcome to Things Have Changed podcast. We're super excited to have you here.
Damien Garot:Thanks a lot. I'm super excited as well.
Jed Tabernero:So just to kick things off, I'm curious, how did you both identify this gap in the market and really what sparked the idea to solve it?
Damien Garot:It's a very good question, and I must say before answering to your question that your testimony is something that we hear every day. Each time we do a pitch, we start by asking people, so how is it on the train or in the back of a Uber? How is it when you try to do a FaceTime with your family and friends? And they just hate it. It's so frustrating. You say the word yourself, frustration. So I will start with my personal experience and Hassan, please chip in. For me, I'm from the countryside. I'm a countryside boy. So I know what it is to feel the digital divide between the countryside and the city centers. And. Even today, when I call my parents, so I live near Paris, but when I call my parents in the countryside and when I hear the engine of the car humming in the background, I'm not even trying anymore to have a discussion. I'm just saying, okay, I'll call you right back. And I will wait for an hour for them to arrive wherever they are. I even don't know where they're going. I just know that I can simply not have. a quality discussion with my parents when they're on the ride. It's simple as this.
Hassan Aouisse:From my side, satellite has been connecting well and solving the problem of connectivity for other mobility sectors, maritime as well as for air on board aircraft on which I worked for several years and the. The land mobility remains the area where there is no solutions up to now that really covers the problem of disconnection while on the road, because it's not just about what's the service availability, but also how many times you get disconnected over an hour or 30 minutes drive. And that's what Stellar is solving for the land mobility sector.
Shikher Bhandary:just on that, like you mentioned, Damien, I was literally on a call with my mother who's in India and she's visiting my grandmother in the village and because they were traveling, I couldn't speak to her. She's like, Oh, the connection is bad. So I would say 90 percent of the population has experienced connectivity problems while traveling. So jumping into the Stellar solution, I know you have mentioned how there are such pillars. You have the cellular, you have the wifi, you have the satellite. So I would love to understand, at least in a layman's term, how your hybrid network works. It's really complicated as you might know.
Damien Garot:You're right. The pillars, wifi is a great pillar at home. You want to have reliable wifi. Cellular is also great such as satellite, but while the pillars they're also silos. And, it's, you still don't get 5G from space. You still don't get an antenna that can go from space to Wi Fi seamlessly. This ability to break through the silos and to make it seamless. So at the end, you and I do not even know where the pipe is coming from. Is it from the ground or is it from the sky actually? Nobody needs to know. All you need to know is that you can rely on that solution. So that's the way we started the idea on Stellar, making sure that you would be connected wherever you are. COVID really impacted the way we are using connectivity today. We are using internet today. Right now, when I call my parents, they insist on having a FaceTime. Voice is not enough. And it's, it is clear that this is a future making sure that we can be connected with these vehicle, which is really part of our everyday lives, but also for the vehicle themselves that are truly smartphone on wheels, they're the line of compute in vehicles is huge these days and they're only growing. So. They do need to have this connectivity the way we have at work at home.
Hassan Aouisse:And from the technology perspective, if you take each one of these technologies, satellite, cellular, and wifi, they. They had time to maturate. They've been there for tens of years, and I would say they are reaching the maximum off of what they can deliver, and each one have its advantages. The next step is to combine them together is that's where we'll bring that value to solve the last problem, which is this connectivity while you are on mobility on the roads or on the rails.
Shikher Bhandary:Yeah, we were just reading through it and Jed and I had that aha moment, which y'all might have had two, three years ago. Some of those ideas where suddenly it just clicks where you're like, yeah, obviously. We have a satellite, we have a cellular, like being able to toggle. seamlessly between them to figure out, okay, maybe during the day we need more of one pillar and during nights we need more of the satellite pillar.
Damien Garot:It is true that we get often the comments saying this idea is kind of obvious. How come others didn't have it yet? And that's true. Maybe there is a reason for that is that Hassan and I are both space engineers. And we're not that young anymore. Let's be clear. So we know that for the space sector. To integrate itself, in today's world, in today's economy, it cannot be a standalone solution. It has to work with other technologies, other wireless technologies, such as cellular, such as wifi. So we basically had ingrained already in our engineering culture, the fact that space Already had to embed itself with other technologies, and this is where this idea of having hybrid solutions across all different technologies was born.
Jed Tabernero:Yeah, I was trying to conceptualize how to explain this because my wife the other day was asking me, Oh, who are the guests are going to have next? We have it. Mostly every weekends and I try to explain to my wife how these technologies worked before the call so that I have a clear idea of how to explain it in layman's terms during the call and an anecdote that I came up with was connectivity as you being in a car driving in a lane. Technically, if I were driving in one lane and my connectivity is me relying on, let's say, Wi Fi is one of those lanes, and you're driving on this one of these lanes that represents Wi Fi, the solution that you're offering basically says, listen. You have now a ton more different lanes. How do you leverage all of them to get to your destination faster or better or smoother in that experience? That was the way I thought of explaining it to my wife. I don't know if that anecdote makes sense at all, but that was helpful for me to think, Okay, yes, they exist, but how do we connect the two into a one lane highway that has, five different lanes? And how do we leverage which ones to go swerve through traffic in a way that makes sense for connectivity?
Damien Garot:Do, do you have for this? Because I'd like to I'd like to pick it up actually to use it because honestly,
Jed Tabernero:please, please use it. Please use it.
Damien Garot:the idea that we going now to the granularity of using a different line. Given the type of application, some applications required that super reliable space connectivity that you can get. Okay, fair enough. You'll have it. Say, think about safety applications, for instance. Others, when the car needs to be updated, it's basically a smartphone today, right? So it needs to be updated, but it doesn't need to be updated instantly. It can be updated. over a week, something like that. So for instance, by using Wi Fi whenever it's available on a commercial parking lot at the charging station, the gas station. So this is where we also bringing some intelligence in the system, making sure that you will be having the right lane, the right pipe. for the right application.
Jed Tabernero:Beautiful. Yeah I often have issues. So I drive a car today that needs to get updated quite a bit. It's a Tesla and I can only update it if I'm connected to wifi. And I live in Jersey City. It's quite a populated area. I can't connect to my wifi all the time. It's very difficult forever to find parking if I am connected to wifi. So I'll go months without updating the software. In my Tesla, depending on where I'm parked, so it's very difficult. That's a problem that's very nascent to us.
Damien Garot:The friction of today's solutions to update cars, it's actually on the drivers, on the passengers to fix this. How come the car should be take care of itself?
Shikher Bhandary:Yeah.
Damien Garot:simple as this. We're paying, we're paying hefty amounts of money for these cars. How come they're not taking care of themselves yet?
Jed Tabernero:What's interesting is that I've paid 12 bucks a month now for premium connectivity for my car and I can't update it while I'm on the road, or even parked at some random place.
Hassan Aouisse:And a good technology is when it works and you just forget about it. As Damien said, it's frictionless. You don't anymore think you will be connected or not. It's just there, wherever you are.
Shikher Bhandary:Congrats on the launch of steer, which is, really cool. We'd love to understand the mix between the hardware and the software in your product. Because I do know steer is. Aimed at more B2B software product, but I'm assuming if it is a car, you would have to have some amount of hardware because it's probably retrofitted. So a car is driving and you have some system that sits on the car that's toggling effortlessly between cellular, Wi Fi and space.
Hassan Aouisse:So most of the cars that come out of factories since some time now, they are equipped with what we call a telematics unit. So it's basically a cellular terminal that's also capable of Wi Fi and potentially in the near future that will also be extended to be able to connect to satellites. And those equipment comes already with integrated compute capability. Steer is a software suite and it's designed in an optimized way. So it can be easily integrated on the type of compute that's already available on vehicles today. So same thing, it's frictionless for the automotive industry to adopt the software, of course, there is some. integration that's needed in their software architecture, but it can run on the hardware that's currently being produced by OEMs, by car manufacturers. I
Damien Garot:And as pointed out, Hassan, it is clear that the next generation of cars will be satellite equipped. And there are two reasons for that. The first one is that now the latest generation of phones are able to directly connect to satellite constellations. And that's amazing.
Shikher Bhandary:it's the 9 1 1 on iPhones these days the 9 1 1 if you don't have network It still goes to the satellite. So yeah,
Damien Garot:You'll go directly to satellite, you can call for help. Not called yet. With Apple, you can send some messages, but other technologies are out there making sure that you can use satellites to, to establish a call from your, uh, smartphone. So that's an amazing technology that will be deployed in the next generation of cars. The second reason. is more of of the topology of the networks and what means topology is that basically satellite systems are really well in design to provide connectivity in the low density area. Think about the countryside, think about deserts, think about place where you like to go hiking, for instance. This is where satellites is fantastic. At the same time If you want to use satellites in city centers in, in, in Jersey City, or in New York, you have urban canyons. There is no point trying to use a satellite. System at that time, because first of all, you don't see much of the sky and to be able to establish a connection to a satellite from a car or your phone, you need to see the sky. You need to be able to see basically the locations where the site will be. So that's the first element. And second in city centers, well, there is plenty of 5g, plenty of wifi. So yeah, clearly it's nonsensical trying to use satellite solutions when Wi Fi or 5G is widely deployed. So that's also where it comes so much into uh, logical and actually well balanced solutions to, to use satellites in addition to the other terrestrial technology of 4G, 5G and Wi Fi. Good. All these togethers, and we're talking here about the existing networks, well, you can already provide a hundred percent coverage for your car or your phone. It's amazing.
Jed Tabernero:That's really interesting. And, I guess to provide personal anecdote in my space, we now have so my job is separated and in three really important sectors. One is the satellite manufacturing. One is the ground gateway stations that we're building near AWS data centers. And the third one is the customer terminals. My gosh, that is a largely complex piece that I haven't even sunk my teeth into for customer terminals. And you just talked about how cars and phones are able to communicate with satellites. In the technologies that are coming out today. But for us, when we're thinking about when somebody asked me okay, why would somebody use satellite? Why would somebody use your business right for Kuiper? And I was telling him, Oh, we're looking at rural areas. We're looking at very specific places on the planet that don't have access to the Internet. But whenever I think about it, as I matched it to the solution that you have, We are so laser focused on that population that is outside of where copper is laid out, right? Like in the 40s, 50s, 60s, we had a ton of sub subsidies from the government to be able to create these networks and this infrastructure for broadband that we have today. And I have to always segment the market and say, no, no, no, no. We're only doing the rural areas. We're only doing these. Separate, populations. I just think it's such a brilliant way to to think about, how do you utilize the technologies that exist today? I wanted to ask we have obviously three massive components here, similar to what we have in our space. The terminal, we have the terrestrial network and we have the constellation. Can you shine a little bit of light on what's going on in that space for a company? How are you creating these partnerships with folks who have constellations? How are you creating these partnerships with a terrestrial network? Because I can tell you for us we're manufacturing everything, right? So we're starting from raw material and to get there, it took us so long and it's pretty, pretty difficult to think about this problem as a whole. Can you shed some light on how that's working in your space? I'm super interested from a personal space as well. Maybe a big question. So
Damien Garot:and I guess one way we can describe ourselves is that we are this missing link between players that have been barely talking to each other and when they've been talking to each other, they don't have the same. They don't have the same language. So you spoke about terminal for instance, right? The solid terminal. We all know what it is It's an antenna. It's a modem. So you get internet If you talk about a terminal for a car manufacturer or truck manufacturers He's thinking or she thinking about a place where the truck will dock To deliver the goods. See, the words themselves are different. They have different meanings. And this is this is where we spend so much time making sure that we could be understood from the space community the telecom community, but also the automotive community, someone that is not here today. And obviously we'll be talking about the team, but let me just yeah. Just emphasis here that we have a third co founder. She's called Anela and she's for, she's the former director of connectivity for the Porsche brand, for the Porsche car brand. And obviously together, we've been able then to create this common language, this common vision, making sure that we can talk to car manufacturers to convince them about what space can bring to them and what software can steer, like steer, can fix. As an issues for them because they need to update the car, but it's full of friction as Jeb explained. And we've been also able to talk to the satellite guys and the the cellular people because. Also there, being able to communicate with the car industry is very difficult. It's so different the way of thinking, the timeline the, this, the scrutiny on the technology and the way to think from the customer is really something that is different from one industry to the next. So this is where the fact that within the core team, we have people from the space sector, from The telecom sector, but also obviously from the automotive sector is really making the difference.
Hassan Aouisse:quite agree with the fact that the complexity is in the terminal and as an input to that is the use cases of each vertical automotive needs are different than other land mobility sectors and understanding those needs, those requirements, the expectations. The roadmap as well is very important. Otherwise we will be having throughput and capacity but that we cannot deliver to the car because it's not designed the right way. So terminal is a critical component because that's what links the user. The
Shikher Bhandary:got it. I go on a lot of hikes and I never get sick. That's constant. I have to wait until I get back to my car for me to get signal. But what I do experience, I never have zero signal, but I have one bar, right? And that's not enough for me to get what I want. You mentioned about having data analysis within your platform and system. Is that something that you're looking at where, Hey, it's not like This one customer is getting zero LTE or cellular signal. They're getting like one bar. And in this case, the satellite is offering two or three bars. So can we toggle effortlessly between the two? Because it's never zero and one. It is it's in the middle where it's hard to decipher which latency to choose between the different networks.
Hassan Aouisse:selection of network is a complex equation of multiple variables. One of them is the signal quality. The other one is the the quality of the network itself at at the. Packet level how it handles packets. There is also what type of applications are running as Damian mentioned that defines which network fit and then There is also the variation of time of the quality of experience on the different networks There are times it's congestion. There's times that are That there are less congestion. And these are all the elements that are taken into account. And satellite has also its limitations when it comes to areas with within forest, for example, or where you have obstacles so that also needs to be taken into account when you decide is it the right time to move to satellite or it's better to continue living with An average that is their connectivity. So there are a lot of variables that I've taken into account and it's all coming to making the switch over between networks completely seamless because it will happen very often. It could happen between 10 to 20 times, even more on a 30 minutes drive.
Jed Tabernero:beautiful thing is this is something that we don't have to let the customers understand. So it's something the problem that you were solving, just avoids from us having to know. Okay, it's using satellite. Now it's using Wi Fi. It's using all this stuff. So it's so important that we have all these lanes figured out that we seamlessly communicate with each other. And to your point, you have to have experts in the space to be able to, deal with all of these different complexities in these different spaces. For us, yeah. We have separate expertise per line of business when it comes to dealing with the government, when it comes to dealing with cellular providers. How does this role of partnerships and collaborations play into, building what you need today?
Damien Garot:It's essential to build a strong network of partners. It's, there is no way we can make sure that steer as a software can be used onto the next generation of cars. If we're not able to set up long term relationship with players that are. A gazillion times bigger than Stellar. So it's it's really something that is I believe that so it's essential for Stellar to achieve. And I'm glad that within the team, we have people that do understand and value also this it's. It's been helping us a lot in making sure that right now in professional associations such as the 5GA, the 5G Automotive Associations, where you have the car manufacturers of the world, but also the cellular operators of the world, and also the the Nokia, the Ericsson, the Huawei of the world coming also. We are there. Probably one of the few Satellite related players that are there, making sure that we can explain what Satellite can bring and making sure that we can establish these partnerships that are then helping the community to design what would be the requirement for a Satellite terminal onto a car that would be fit with the requirement of the automotive industry, for instance. Where we could together envisage the way to open services in certain area or address certain applications such as entertainment or the updates of the car, all these kind of things can be done there. So, it is to me, partnerships is really absolutely essential for Stellar to succeed. Hassan and myself, such as Anela we've been having this. Part of our DNA from the get go. I don't know, for instance, at Porsche made this deal with this partnership with Apple to bring natively the Apple CarPlay into the Taycan, which is the electric Porsche. So that, that was really a first and she's been driving this, sorry for the pun. You know, masterfully, I work at which is satellite operator in Europe. I strike this deal with Facebook in 2015 to bring broadband internet to Africa via satellite. And that was a first also for the space sector to be able to establish a partnership with this 800 pound gorilla from the West Coast. It was absolutely fascinating and Hassan will tell you in a minute the amazing partnership he's been able to establish in East Korea. So it's really something that we understood as the co founder and this is also the way we've been able to think, Okay, we are startups. We are only the three of us. We only have a Microsoft team license. We're in the middle of the pandemic right now. How in the hell do we think that we're going to be succeeding? Partnerships.
Hassan Aouisse:And I think the other element is just as we say, let's use cellular and Wi Fi and complete it with satellite is not to reinvent the wheel. So if there are other companies, other technologies that already exist that fits a need, let's partner and focus on something that doesn't exist yet that we are inventing. Which is the steer and this orchestration software that allows to maximize the benefit from all these technologies together.
Shikher Bhandary:As we're wrapping, I can't believe it's the end of 2023 already. It seems since the pandemic, every year is going 60 percent faster, but that's a different podcast conversation. I just wanted to ask you going into the new year as subject matter experts in this field across multiple industries, right? What are some trends that you're really excited about that's going to help Stellar?
Hassan Aouisse:So we think that the automotive industry is the next big space for satellite communications. So satellite communications need automotive industry to, to expand automotive industry need also satellite to be able to do its next. Big transformation digitalization and, and autonomy. And I think, so that, that will definitely give a big help to space to expand. The other element that is very important as well is standardization. So the extension of 5G to satellites or 5G non terrestrial networks. Is that other another critical element in the equation of the next step of telecoms and space in particular, and so rather promising the fact that the standardization bodies are really pushing this forward and we're seeing release over release the expansion of the standardization towards higher throughput and more use cases.
Damien Garot:And 2024 will be an amazing year for Stellar because we heard loud and clear, uh, Jeb Shaker complaining about the fact that they're not connected where they're on the train or in the back of a car. So why we obviously mindful that the car for the car industry to integrate our software. It's a midterm process. It takes a lot of time, from the moment a car manufacturers decide to build a car to the moment that the first car is out of the production line, it's a number of years, three to five, give or take. Which means that It will be a little bit long for that, but what won't be long is for us to use our software and to put it in a box so it will be your router, but when you're on the move, it will be something that you can plug into your car or you can plug on in the train car so that you can use it wherever you go. And it's a product that we, we call global that, that will be unveiled. In Las Vegas at the CS 24. Indeed, the technology, the complexity. With Hassan together, we met at Skybridge. So we've been going through all this complexity. And really, there are three parts. When it comes to satellite constellations, the first one is a technology, obviously the second one is the market, making sure that you designing a system so that you're actually addressing the use case of the customer. And for the car industry, the first thing that, we getting it, that's, how power hungry is your equipment, how heavy is it? What kind of temperature can you sustain? So it's not really about the throughput. It's really more about, the things that are so important for electric cars in the future, stuff like that. And obviously the third part is for the for the financing of all this. And so really right now the constellation that we see unfolding. are really promising and we hope that they will be able to bridge the gap in terms of technology to make sure that at some point we'll see broadband into cars the same way we see broadband at home, right? It's really this.
Jed Tabernero:a great introduction into this space we'd like to give the floor open to you both to just shout out to your team shout out to the folks who you want to partner with shout out to the places where you'd like to put more heads into you know this is a great opportunity to just get into our audience
Hassan Aouisse:What we achieved so far, it's thanks to the great team we have it's great team of professional experts, but also of personalities and individuals and that, and both are important. When you are building such a a challenging and exciting product. And we will be expanding in next year. It's one of also the elements that will keep us busy too. I would say Stellar is a great place to, to work in. We have a great team, a great the team general environment and energy
Damien Garot:Join the ride. It's going to be amazing. It's a bunch of fun folks. Let me tell you, uh, I don't feel like working at all. It's a, it's an amazing ride.
Shikher Bhandary:That's awesome. We've really, really enjoyed this call. We hope to do this many more times in the future. Wishing you all the success and cannot wait for all the incredible things coming from Stellar in the next coming months, coming years.
Jed Tabernero:hour is not enough to talk about the space industry i very much appreciate it i mean
And that's a wrap on today's cosmic journey with Damion, gavel, and us on always. Louise from stellar. A huge, thank you to both founders for navigating us through the galaxies of connectivity and showing us how close the future really is. So our listeners, don't forget to connect with us on thc-pod.com. Or things have changed podcast.com. Join the conversation, share your thoughts and maybe even your own stellar experiences with connectivity. As always. Stay curious.
Jed Tabernero:The information and opinions expressed in this episode are for informational purposes only. And are not intended as financial investment or professional advice. Always consult with a qualified professional before making any decisions based on the concept provided. Neither the podcast, nor is creators are responsible for any actions taken as a result of listening to this episode.